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Monday, June 10, 2019

The Hachi Chronicle - A Big Step Backwards

This week with Hachi was challenging, to put it mildly. A week ago, his "attacks" on R became more frequent. Hallways or any spot mildly confining seemed to trigger them. Thoughts of food also triggered them. Or, any outside stress like recent training seemed to trigger them.

I became increasingly worried that his non-injuring "attacks" were escalating and might end up badly injuring R. I got extremely upset, even coming down with a migraine due to my stress as I realized what we were facing. We finally decided that we needed to separate the Duo from Hachi, effectively splitting our pack within one house.

This is not an easy thing to do, either logistically or emotionally. Logistically, we have an open floor plan with a few rooms with closing doors off a big multi-functional room. Since we don't (yet) own gates or ex pens, it has meant that one half of the pack is behind a closed door or in crate(s) while the other half is out. We hate that. And, Shyla gets very upset, barking non-stop, when she can't be with us, creating yet another stress source.

Emotionally, it stinks not to be able to be with all of our dogs at once. It feels as if we are constantly letting someone down - whoever is closed up away from us.


Fortuitously, months ago, I'd made an appointment for Hachi with a very booked up Behavioral Vet, and it fell last Thursday. We drove a very long way to have him evaluated. Suffice to say that the outlook was not cheery. His aggression started quite young, and he is classified as "very reactive" toward strangers. The vet started him on Prozac. Then, this week, we add in another anti-anxiety drug. The hope is that we can calm his fears using pharmaceuticals to bring his reactivity and aggression under control. That will help him to be more receptive to training.

The conversation with that vet was sobering and heart-breaking. The vet absolutely feels that Hachi should be kept separate from the Labraduo, at least for now, until if/when the drugs start working. Her prognosis is not great but we will do all that we can to help him. There are only so many hours in a day but we are doing everything in our power to retrain his brain to see the world as less scary.

The vet rightfully pointed out that none of this is good for our exceptionally fearful Shyla. We are seeing that very clearly as her anxiety is escalating because she wants the reassurance of being close to us all the time. We need to get her evaluated too so that she doesn't end up regressing into the non-functional state that she was in when we first met her.

I am still feeling incredibly sad and afraid. Leaving the behavioral vet, it felt like we'd gotten a diagnosis of similar severity as cancer - because she was so strong in her words about Hachi. I am guessing that I'll feel less sad as we get used to our new normal of having a split pack. And, I'll really feel better if the drugs seem to help. The Prozac takes a long time to become therapeutic so we won't know about that for a while.
No matter what, Hachi has always been incredibly sweet and loving with us humans. He melts our hearts every day. We love him like crazy so we want to make this work. I hope that someday, this update will all be a faded memory when Hachi is a well-adjusted dog in our pack.

41 comments:

  1. I hope so much that you can find a way and that the prognosis of this vet becomes not true.... hugs and POTP and all crossed paws for you... you did fo much for Shyla and R and maybe you can do a little miracle for Hachi too and it will work out pawfectly...

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  2. Oh dear me KB...bless you and the Runner for your devotion. I can only imagine how scary Hachi's life was on the streets. Fighting for every crumble of food being such a wee boy and having to stand up to the big aggressive dogs he learn bad habits too young. But he survived...

    You have worked so hard with Shyla to get her where she is. I know nothing about K9 behavior. Sweet R
    surely doesn't need these surprise attacks with his vision compromised.

    I am sending you all tons of prayers and may the Prozac work quickly.

    Hugs Cecilia

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  3. I am so sorry to read this. 💔 I know it will be hard but if anyone can make this all work it is you.

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  4. Hari OM
    such a handsome boy and I always thought those eyes held mischief - but this is very sad news indeed. However, I cannot think beyond how lucky Hachi is to be with folks and a pack who will provide all the chances he could possibly have to 'come good'. I send POTP to you all, but a little extra for Shyla, too, as she adjusts to the altered regime. YAM xx

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  5. This is so sad...and I can only imagine the burden it puts on you. I guess, for now, that it means no more travels? Let's hope the meds work a miracle...
    mark

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  6. That sure is so very sad and how awful it must be for Hachi to be so helpful. I hope the meds workout as they are supposed to and that all will be calm before you know it.

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  7. I do hope the meds will bring some normalcy back to your pack. I hope dear R and Shyla (who has come so far) do not suffer because of Hachi's problems. POTP to your entire pack, canine and human. You may have to make some horrible decisions but I know you will manage to do whatever is best for all concerned. Even if that means finding a home where Hachi can be the only focus. That said, I must admit I am totally biased. I do love the black dog. And you have worked so hard to bring Shyla to where she is. So I am not qualified to even venture an opinion. (Although my dear husband says that never stops me.) Best of luck to you in hopes that all goes well and the threesome will bond.

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  8. Some folks in our rescue have had to deal with separation, and it's always most difficult on the humans! We'll keep our paws crossed that things improve soon.

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  9. Our hearts are sad as we read this post. We pray that the meds and time and training will help Hachi out. You have worked too hard with Shyla for it not to. We are sending you tons of positive vibes!

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  10. We're rooting for you all and hope you'll see some changes with Hachi soon enough to reunite the pack.

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  11. so sorry, for all of you. if anyone can help Hachi overcome it is you

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  12. Sorry to hear of your troubles with Hachi. If only we could talk "dog" and make them understand that things are good now, no more worries. Wouldn't that make life so much easier for everyone?
    I had a chocolate lab, Bailey, that put the fear of God into any dog that crossed her path. She was a foster and I ended up adopting her. She was found as a stray but had teats, so we suspect she was used as a breeder but no pups were with her or ever found. She had no concept of play or toys or anything. She was small but mighty and kind of like a powder keg waiting to explode. My black lab we have now came along as a puppy when we still had Bailey and even though she is long gone, he is a somewhat timid dog and I think a lot of it was intimidation when he was a puppy. It makes me sad, but also made me realize my mistakes. Bailey certainly had issues and that was one reason I kept her and did not adopt her out. In hindsight, I did a lot of things wrong, but know that I would do things differently today in that same situation.
    I am so glad you are proactive with Hachi and while separating the pack is difficult, sounds like it's for the best right now. He will come around and he has the perfect pack and pack leaders to show him the way.

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  13. Looks like you're on top of everything. I know you'll figure out what needs to be done. Thanks for keeping us in the loop. Hachi is such a good looking pup.

    Have a fabulous day and week. ♥

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  14. Wishing you good luck with Hachi. It can't be easy.

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  15. So Unfortunate - Sending Positive Vibes - Much Love

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  16. We have our paws crossed that the meds work for Hachi and your pack will one day be a united group.

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  17. I know that if anyone can find a way to make this work, you can. May your pack be together again without worry of harm.

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  18. I am so sorry to hear about the problems you are having fitting Hachi into your pack. I know that you will do everything in your power to make this work, but at what cost? Sometimes the hardest decision is to admit that one cannot fix every problem no matter how hard we try. Maybe Hachi would be happier in a one dog household? There are no easy answers as I'm sure know. Wishing you all the best, sending positive thoughts.

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    1. The vets are very discouraging about trying to place Hachi someplace else. They say that "dogs like him" tend to end up neglected or abused. They think that he has his best chance at a normal life here with us, despite the dog-dog issues. I have to defer to them because I have zero experience with this type of situation.

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    2. KB, did you happen to catch the resource guarding webinar at Fenzi and the podcast with Michael Shikashio? Might be someone you could get a second opinion from. I'm just not sure why your vet would say that dogs like Hachi tend to end up neglected or abused. Not following the reasoning behind that statement. I hope that meds will help - it is not fun rotating dogs - stressful for everyone, dogs and humans alike. I would just hate to see Shyla backslide after all the work you have done with her. Hoping for the best for everyone.

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    3. I did see that webinar at Fenzi. It didn't deal as much with dog vs. dog resource guarding as I'd hoped but he is an impressive trainer. I have already been considering contacting him. Thanks so much!

      Also, I didn't entirely understand that statement by the behavioral vet either. I was already shell-shocked at that point in our appt so I didn't press her. My guess was that she was referring to a combo of his looks (he looks as if he has pitty in him even though it's actually not much) plus people think that they can cure something like this using punishment based training. You have no idea how many unsolicited opinions I've gotten from neighbors etc that we need to use what I consider to be abusive methods with Hachi. What the vet said (as I remember it) is that people will try those methods. When they don't work, they either give up and neglect the dog or actually go onto physical abuse. I'll ask more next time we see her. In any case, she was strongly opposed to rehoming Hachi and said that she'd prefer euthanasia. About then was when my brain started to shut down....

      You are right that rotating dogs is no fun and not good for Shyla. We are trying not to look too far ahead now. We'll figure out the best course at some point. For now, we're still hoping that the meds help enough that Hachi can improve a lot.

      Thanks so much for your comments!

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  19. Paws crossed it works...and soon. They do seem to love each other. Hope Hachi's behaviour improves.

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  20. We have experienced similar things in our family in the past and we totally understand how hard it is for everyone involved. Amazingly, so many people have such issues and live in homes where the pack is separated. Certainly, we hope the meds work and you can return to a happy pack again in the future.

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  21. but all the pictures of them curled up together sleeping... that was the real thing! has that all not been happening anymore? if it makes me sad you must be devastated!
    and it's not good that Shyla and R are put in danger. praying that the medications work.
    poor little guy had some terrible trauma. we will think positive thoughts dear heart. xo

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    1. Actually, the curled up together bliss still was happening - which is part of why it took so long for us to admit that there really was a problem. The issue is that Hachi loses his mind in various situations - when there's food involved or he's feeling stressed - even though he seems to love the Duo. The three were/are the best of friends. They are still playing together outdoors, where we've had no issues yet.

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  22. Oh, I'm so sorry...I was afraid things weren't going well with Hachi. I wish there were easier answers. We lived with gates and separation between Luke and our cat Sam. It was hard, and I can imagine so much harder with dogs and dogs. Sam was accepting of being on her own some, but many dogs are not the same (Luke hates being separated from us when we have company over). I know you will do all you can to keep everyone happy, and I hope it goes well and all this is only temporary. ♥
    Jan, Wag 'n Woof Pets

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  23. We can imagine how hard this must be for you. hope that the meds will help calm Hachi and you will be able to continue helping him be the best dog he can be
    hugs
    Mabel, Hilda & Mom

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  24. Oh KB, I am so sorry you are all going through this. I know that feeling you describe, of "constantly letting someone down" even while you are doing your very best for animals, and it is terribly stressful. I hope you won't have more migraines.
    Hoping for the best outcome for everyone.

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  25. KB, I read your post yesterday while at work, and didn't get the chance to comment. But I wanted to just tell you that I know exactly what you are going through. During the 5 years I served as president for the rescue, all too often, dogs like your boy Hachi came into the rescue, and we fostered some of them. Our pack was smaller then, but the one dog did affect all of us, and we also had to "manage" them. I totally admire you for what you are willing to do. I will tell you that when we had evaluations done on various dogs, we were told the same things as you were. It was not easy to iron out those proverbial wrinkles, but there were times when we could and did. But sadly because the dogs we had were a bit older, there were times when we could not safely place them (remember, this is why I have our boy Sunny) and because it was a rescue, and we live in a litigious society, a decision was made to euthanize the dog. I know, that's not where you are, and I would never, ever, ever (!!) suggest that to you. But I know and truly believe that Hachi relearning what he knows, will be because of your love and devotion and commitment to him. I am cheering you on from here to be successful. And I can promise you, that wherever this takes you and Hachi, there will be a moment when you will have absolute clarity and know exactly the path to take and what to do. You are truly the best, and you have all my best vibes and hopes coming from my corner of Virginia!!

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  26. I'm so very sorry you are going through this - it's so unfair when you have already dealt with so many issues with Shyla :( I have a lot of thoughts, but I know you are doing your research, and will come to the right decisions.

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  27. Oh Little Hachi,poor dude. I'm so sorry this is happening. These pups didn't ask to be scared of the world. It makes me so sad. I hope the drugs help. We had Sparkles on a CBD supplement and it seemed to lower
    her anxiety so that she could think her way through some triggering situations instead if reacting right away.

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  28. KB and family, I'm so sorry about Hachi. We wish you all the best with him and for your whole family. I know how tough it is to deal with dogs who are having extreme issues. 0000

    I hope your behaviorist also discussed setting him free with you. Sometimes despite all the love and care and drugs and training, the quality of life for everyone involved suffers. I know everyone on here is supporting you and telling you that you can do it, you can work with him, you've got experience but I wanted to tell you something different. Sometimes all the love we have to offer them just isn't enough. Genetics matter, what happened to the mother while she was pregnant matters. Sometimes they just can't get well and if that's the case for Hachi, I wanted to let you know it's okay. It's okay to not put yourself, your husband and your other dogs through dealing with an aggressive dog. It's okay to let him go with love.

    I wanted to let you know there's support out there if you need it. I would check out this podcast: https://animalfarmfoundation.org/2019/06/04/behavioral-euthanasia-podcast/?fbclid=IwAR1RgMcF4pFpbDPXKk7ElyjI4bQxzfo9j7gYFP7AKskhRud_aIjrRHxMBlA and I would also recommend joining the facebook group "Losing Lulu".

    As always, I am always here for you if you need to chat. (((hugs)))

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    1. Thanks Lauren. I so appreciate your support. The "no judgement" view means the world to me. We have no idea how this will turn out. The vet did discuss euthanasia with us... it is a heartbreaking thing to even contemplate. But, we know that it's an option out there.

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  29. KB - this brought tears to my eyes because it reminds me of my Alex (the fella in my blog pic). He was a stray from the streets of Trenton NJ and was with the rescue family for 4 months before I adopted him. It was not easy as he was attached to the other family. He was not trustful, would not want to be near me. after a month he was sitting next to me and scratching his ear. When he stopped, I was petting him and asked if I could look at his ear - I ever so carefully went near his ear and he went crazy - biting at me. Luckily I had on a heavy sweatshirt, but my arm was black and blue. He then sat on the floor shaking and looked terrified - as if I were going to hit him. And to tell you the truth, I thought about giving him up. I cried because I did love him ( all of my previous dogs were rescues, but I never had any problems with them). I was patient with him and he turned around after many months. He turned into a great dog and we have been together 8 years this month! So don't give up. I am so glad I didn't.

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    1. I am so happy for you and Alex. I hope that our story turns out as wonderfully as yours! It sure must have been scary when he went crazy. But, it's so amazing that he's turned into such a great dog.

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  30. I am so sorry to hear this, I know though that you all will do all in your power to make it work for everyone. Wishing you all the best and hope this all works out sooner than expected. Hugs

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  31. KB, were sending all the POTP that there is in the world! We are with you each step of the way.
    love
    tweedles

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  33. I am praying for the Prozac to work. I had my cat on it for a brief period and it made a difference. Hachi sounds like Brut was and you know our situation that still is. I pray you don't end up like that. I know first hand how difficult this situation is. On you and the dogs. I also know about wanting to give up and give in and the frustration and fear. I am sorry that you have to go through this. Hachi is just trying to survive. That's all he knows. You are more than welcome to email me. Even if you just need to vent or cry or share your fears. 24pawsoflove(at)gmail(dot)com

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  34. We have had these problems too with some of the many dogs we rescued. Only one time did it not resolve itself over time and we had to keep two male dogs separated from each other. We also had two female dogs, two birds, and two cats, so it became quite the thing. I ended up sleeping with the Doberman, who was the one being attacked, and my husband slept with the rest of them. Not the best for our married life, but no permanent harm was done. I hope this will work out for the good of everyone. It's good you have the ability to get professional advice and help with medicines.

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  35. What an incredibly difficult situation to be in. Hachi is lucky to have you, and to have so much love. I know you will do the best that you possibly can, but always remember that sometimes, not even the greatest love can heal some things. I wish for the bottom of my heart for the best possible outcome.

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